Warren Throckmorton

Alan Chambers has a LOT of nerve accusing the APA of moving away from its primary mission of helping clients and promoting a political agenda instead.

Isn't this a little like the pot calling the kettle black? Consider EXODUS's "agenda":

(1) They seek to reclassify homosexuality as a mental illness.

(2) They appose equal rights for gays and lesbians.

(3) They want to abolish all Hate Crime Laws.

Consider, also, what some of EXODUS's own leaders and spokespersons have had to say about gays, gay Chrhistians and homosexuality! All of the following are direct quotes caught on film or printed in EXODUS's own materials. I am not making any of this up. I can provide proof of each and every statement:

"sexually broken", "in need of recovery", "insecure", "not in the will of God", "destructive, inappropriate and sinful", "immoral", "they should play masculine sports", "they are demon possessed", "deviant", "filth", "intrinsically repulsive", "accursed", "damned", "to be greatly detested", "condemned and sentenced". "separated from God" and "worthy of death".

One EXODUS's own members at EXODUS's 15th conference put it this way:

"GOD HATES HOMOSEXUALS AND SO DO CHRISTIANS."

Don't be deceived. EXODUS is not all about benevolence and caring. They have lobbied Washington for funding to set up a government sponsored reparative therapy clinic.

They have a definite anti-gay attitude and a very specific anti-gay political agenda.

I am confident that at American Psychological Association is smart enough to see through the EXODUS hoax. I am not so sure about the general public.
 

Michael - I allowed this comment for the time being. I do however need some evidence for the statement attributed to an Exodus member. This is a serious allegation and requires you to name the person or I will delete the comment. Also, please provide evidence that Exodus lobbied Congress for a reparative therapy clinic.
 

As I said, Warren, I can provide proof of each and every statement. Some are by Sy Rogers. Some are Elizabeth Moberly. Some are Joe Dallas. Some are from Mr. and Mrs. Highly of L.I.F.E. Ministry in New York. Some are Frank Worthen's.

Most are directly from the film "One Nation Under God". Review the film (again) if you don't believe me. Other comments are from Frank Worthen's writings.

The "GOD HATES HOMOSEXUALS AND SO DO CHRISTIANS" is a direct quote from an unidentified EXODUS member at their 15th annual conference in San Antonio -- also caught on film in One Nation Under God.

As I said, I am not making ANY of this up.
 

Warren: Regarding the lobbying efforts to set up the government sponsored "reparative therapy" clinic -- that is also documented in One Nation Under God.

Complete with a picture of EXODUS leaders and Elizabeth Moberly smiling and shaking hands with the Director of Health and Human Services. (Are you sure you watched the film?)

Also check out Exgay Watch for pictures of EXODUS's membership director (and Alan Chamber's right hand man) lobbying against gay marriage.

As I said, it takes a lot of nerve for Alan Chambers to accuse the APA of being "political".

I am not the only former board member of EXODUS who is "horrified" by EXODUS's increasingly political agenda. This was NOT our intent when we started EXODUS. We were determined to stay politically NEUTRAL.

It is extremely painful for us to see EXODUS going down this road.
 

Michael - I thought you meant recently, but then I read the post again and you specified the 15th conference. Sorry about that.

I am quite sure that Exodus would reject any statement to that effect now. I suspect any ministry leader who said that would be relieved of their duties. In fact, when Wayne Besen's picture was defaced recently, they distanced themselves from this kind of activity.

I was at the Exodus conference recently and I heard nothing like you are describing.

Do you have current evidence that Exodus would favor a reclassification of SSA per se as a mental illness?

I do not favor this and would be surprised to learn that Exodus ever has a position on the subject.

On the point of APA, I beleive that it has moved from being a politically neutral scientific organization to often having a left-leaning stance on issues that have current political significance. Destructive Trends in Mental Health by Nick Cummings and Rogers Wright provide ample support for this opinion. The issue Alan protests is only one of several discussed in this book. I would prefer these organizations be like mine: neutral on issues of conscience outside of our mission.
 

Ed: From the VERY beginning, EXODUS was approached by both "pro-gay" and "anti-gay" organizations -- asking EXODUS to support their "agendas". We refused. We were a ministry -- not a political action committee.

Anita Bryant's husband called frequently in the early days to ask EXODUS to support ridding the public schools of (suspeacted) gay teachers. We refused.

EXODUS's best "defense" against its so-called "attackers" is to stick with its original MISSION -- and stay OUT of politics. There is no need to abandon EXODUS's original intent NOW. This can only turn the general public against them.

They (Alan and EXODUS) can't complain about the APA being "political" when they do the SAME thing. It's called hypocrisy -- and it's not Christian. "Take the log out of your own eye..." Remember?
 

Also, Ed, critics of EXODUS (like me) have every RIGHT to challenge and criticize. (Just as EXODUS does.) And, EXODUS has every right to exist and speak its mind. I have NEVER, NEVER claimed otherwise. No one is pushing to make EXODUS illegal.

"Attacks", as you call them, are to be expected. God know, gays and lesbians have been "attacked" verbally (and sometimes physically) for DECADES. The opinions I quoted are NOT taken "out-of-context" and EXODUS has NEVER publically denounced them.

I don't LIKE the comments, but we live in a land that allows for different opionions. It's called freedom of speech. It's what we are doing here.

So, some people may try to "abuse" Hate Crime Laws to limit religious freedom. What's your point? Should we do away with evey law that MIGHT or has been abused?

Nonsense! That's why we have COURTS -- to interpret and enforce the laws of our land. People may try to abolish freedom of speech or religion, but no one (gay or straight) will sit still for that. We are (I hope) still Americans.
 

Dr. T. I don't recall EXODUS offically calling for a reclassification of homosexuality as a "mental illness" -- but they have made it clear many times (over the past 30 years) that they beileve that the APA was wrong when it removed homosexuality from the DSM in 1974.

EXODUS members have repeated their unhappiness that it is not still included in the list of disorders -- and have regularly complained that the only reason it is NOT in the DSM is that that APA "caved in to pressure by pro-gay groups".

Doesn't take mush of a leap assume that they think it should still be listed. That way, they might be able to bill insurance. right?
 

In the years since it was made, not ONE of the EXODUS leaders or members in the film has EVER taken back (or clarified)ONE comment that they made. They have had PLENTY of time to do so.

EXODUS could have (and should have) denounced these comments. They haven't. So what was said 15 years ago by EXODUS is still on the record.

I quoted Frank Worthen word-for-word from his Love In Action newsletter of 1/1691. People like me (who call themselves homosexual Christians" are "anathema", "accursed", "to be greatly detested" and will be "condemned and sentenced". In a letter which I still have, Frank assures me that the "angels of God" are going to "push me into the fiery pit". He said he chose his words "carefully, knowing their full implication". How's that for an "attack", Ed?

EXODUS also believes that certain Old Testament passages prohibit homosexual behavior and call for the death penalty for those who do them. How's that for a "context"?
 

Michael - I would say that in your conversations with Alan and Exodus, it would be good to raise these things. If Exodus hasn't retracted/corrected those impressions, then they may want to do that. I am a late-comer to the scene and I have not heard things like that from Exodus. But I will not speak for them since I do not know what the official position (if there is one) is.

My preference for all organizations to allow individuals to speak freely their public policy beliefs but as an organization to only take positions on matters relating to the mission and then only after careful study and an allowance for any dissenting voices there may be. I belong to only two professional organizations and they both adhere to those principles. I am considering rejoining ACA to attempt to make changes in that group but this is not my highest priority at present.
 

Dr. T: I have taken your advice. I have left a message for Alan Chambers -- challenging him to refute, denounce or clarify any of the anti-gay comments I quoted from EXODUS leaders and members. We'll see.

As for Frank Worthen, he refuses to even talk to me. Can't imagine why... Maybe he hasn't changed his mind and still thinks of me, and other gay Christians, as "accursed, damned, condemned, sentenced" and that we deserve to be "greatly detested."
 

As for Frank Worthen, he refuses to even talk to me. Can't imagine why...

you ought to know why, Michael. After all, he must grow annoyed with you always insinuating (elsewhere on this blog) that he hasn't changed, and that he is "gay" and will always be "gay."

anon
 

I haven't insinuated that Frank Worthen is Gay. Frank, himself, has admitted verablly and in his own literature that he continues (or at least DID at the time he wrote his materials) to have gay feelings.
 

But do you honestly think EXODUS or NARTH would be displeased if homosexuality was reclassified as an illness? Heck no. They would be celebrating in the streets.
 

Whether or not Michael Bussee is "insinuating"" that Frank Worthen is still gay, you may want to check out Mr. Worthen's own comments, as reported by Raplh Blair. Every ex-gay I have spoken to admits that they stil have homoseuxal attraction. Here's the link:

http://www.ecinc.org/RealChanges.htm
 

Regarding the latest anonymous posting:

Every Christian I have spoken to admits that they are still tempted to sin.

Here's the link: Bible.

Conclusion: Frank Worthen is a Christian who hasn't died yet.
 

Correction: Frank Worthen is a Christian

"with homosexual tendencies who would rather not have those tendencies"

who hasn't died yet. Joe Dallas of EXODUS's definition of "Ex-gay" -- a term that Mr. Worthen still favors.
 

To call homosexuality a temptation is to trivialize the attraction, dedication, self-sacrifice and love that many gay men feel for each other. It is the abuse of sexuality (not the gender) that really matters. God sees the heart. I don't think he is preoccupied with the plumbing.
 

Oh look! It's a George Orwell website. The gays are unbelievable. They don't won't to hear the truth from ex-gays